Ghost stories come in many shapes and sizes, but few look or feel like The Civil Dead. Written by and starring Clay Tatum and Whitmer Thomas, and directed by Tatum, the slacker comedy is a funny, lo-fi hangout movie set in Silver Lake, Los Angeles, that eschews horror conventions. Clay (Tatum) is a deadbeat photographer who bumps into an old friend – the lonely, Joker outfit-sporting Whit (Thomas) – while searching for inspiration. They spend time together in Clay’s apartment, but it’s only when he tries to shake Whit off that he reveals he’s a ghost who only Clay can see. Here, Tatum and Thomas discuss their collaborative process, making movies on a microbudget and Tatum’s extensive collection of Joker-themed apparel.
The Civil Dead (2022)
JADE TURNER: WHERE DID THE INSPIRATION FOR THE FILM COME FROM?
CLAY TATUM: It was just a random idea I had during lockdown in July 2020: what would happen if you were haunted by a ghost and, instead of scaring you, it annoyed you? Maybe there was something subconscious about being locked away and the weird social interactions of the pandemic. I just thought the idea was funny and, most importantly, not at all poignant. When I first told you, Whit, what did you think about it?
WHITMER THOMAS: I thought it was a continuation of a short Clay had made about an annoying guy who intrudes Clay’s space before charming his way out of it. Then we just ran with the idea of a ghost with no powers. We didn’t have any money to do any powers.
CT: When we were writing, Whit kept saying, ‘What if I just fly around for a second?’ And I’d go, ‘You need to calm down. We can’t. There’s no way we can afford this!’
WT: But the movie would be a lot better if I suddenly started flying.
CT: He’s not wrong. It would be a lot better if he was zipping around.
WT: We shot the movie for 30 grand and that was an endless amount of money to us – we’d never had a budget that big. And I thought, ‘I bet they could make me fly. What’s that cost? Like, $1,500?’
The Civil Dead (2022)
JT: WERE THE HORROR TROPES IN THE SCRIPT? A LOT OF THEM SEEM TO COME THROUGH THE SOUND AND MUSIC.
CT: We definitely wanted to play into them. We like the idea of setting up certain tropes and not delivering on them. We were writing it like a joke, where it has a set up and then doesn’t pay off the way you think. But when we edited the movie and gave it to [composer] Max Whipple, his music really amped up the horror aspects. The movie took a different shape from there, and I think Max plays a big part in making the horror elements stand out.
WT: We told him specifically to stay away from horror things, but in the first call after he had submitted the music, he was like, ‘Just for fun, I added in some little noises.’ [Imitates Psycho’s stabbing violins.] We were like, yeah, we gotta have that!
JT: HOW DO YOU APPROACH WORKING TOGETHER?
CT: Whit and I have known each other since we were 11, and we’ve worked creatively together since we were 12. There’s no routine or anything. We have a certain shorthand, and I don’t even think about how we’re going to collaborate.
WT: Yeah, it’s mostly just encouraging one another. I’ll say, ‘You could be dumber here. I could dial it back there.’
The Civil Dead (2022)
JT: THERE’S A REAL DESPERATION AND MELANCHOLY TO WHIT’S CHARACTER. HOW DID YOU FIND BALANCING THAT TONALLY WITH THE COMEDY?
CT: We originally wrote Whit more like a suave, Elliott Gould type, but something about that didn’t feel right. Then we made Whit act more dumb and aloof, and that melancholy works a lot better. I also find it way funnier to put that character in situations where you feel bad for him.
WT: Desperate characters are always going to be funnier. For the first few days on set, we were a little worried because there would be these sad, vulnerable, heavy moments on top of really stupid jokes – like Clay throwing a beer and me not catching it. We were like, ‘Are these two things together even going to work?’
The Civil Dead (2022)
JT: I LOVE WHIT’S JOKER-STYLE PURPLE JACKET, AND HOW WELL THE REVEAL OF HIS DEATH – AT THE HANDS OF DEADPOOL AND PENNYWISE IMPERSONATORS – PAYS OFF. DID THE IDEA FOR WHIT’S DEATH COME FIRST OR THE CARTOONISH COSTUME?
CT: With the costume, we knew that we wanted something that would stand out. Like, if you saw it, you’d know something’s off here – something’s weird about this guy.
WT: Yeah, we pitched ideas. I think initially Clay said, ‘You’re gonna dress like a car salesman from the late Seventies.’
CT: Something like that. And the way that Whit dies – we were over halfway through the script when we came up with that.
WT: We just couldn’t figure out how I died. And then I called Clay and was like, ‘Dude, what if I’ve been a Joker impersonator, and have been lying to you about my acting career?’ And Clay said, ‘And you were killed by Deadpool and Pennywise!’
CT: It definitely solves the problem of how he’s gonna stick out in an odd way. It’s weird to see those colours on a person in 2021 [when the film is set].
WT: And I already had all the gear.
The Civil Dead (2022)
JT: WHY DID YOU HAVE THE COSTUME?
WT: I used to do a stand-up show called Joker Fest, where I would force all the comedians to dress like the Joker and do stand up, so I had a lot of Joker gear. For the movie, I bought a replica of the Heath Ledger Joker shirt. It said it was authentic.
CT: And this was not cheap at all.
WT: No, it was in the three figures, and coming out of my own pocket. But then I got it, and it was a total scam. It was printed on swim-trunks material. We realised we needed a costume designer, so we got our friend Kaysie Bergens to do it. And she really hooked it up. She found everything at a costume house, and I already had the green pants from Joker Fest.
The Civil Dead (2022)
JT: HOW DID YOUR LA LOCATIONS ADD TO THE AESTHETIC OF THE FILM?
CT: I really like to see a location, and have it feel like a lived-in place where I learn more about the character. For my character, we shot in my apartment with [my wife] Whitney. We lived in that place and that’s a big reason why I based the character on me. You can just film in your own apartment, and it already feels lived-in. We hate watching movies and not being able to tell where they take place. And, for some reason, we also like a big location change in the third act.
WT: I think people often feel when they’re making a low-budget movie it all has to take place in one house or apartment, but really you can get away with shooting anywhere. We shot on this train in LA and nobody said anything. Our DP put the camera in his lap and that was it.
The Civil Dead (2022)
JT: CLAY’S CHARACTER HAS THE POWER TO SEE DEAD PEOPLE. WHAT SPECIAL POWER DO YOU WISH YOU HAD?
CT: I definitely don’t want to see the dead. That’s my nightmare. The one ability that I want so bad is a Groundhog Day, where you could pick your own Groundhog Day. I would go to the casino, see what would happen and then, the next day, do big bets and win a lot of money. I realise a lot of my wishes for special abilities are just to acquire more easy cash, which shows you where I’m at financially.
WT: I want to breathe underwater, but I know I’ll get eaten by a shark – I’ll swim too close to a shark. But I would say breathe underwater or fly, pretty basic stuff.
The Civil Dead (2022)
JT: ARE YOU WORKING ON ANYTHING TOGETHER AT THE MOMENT?
CT: We’re trying to get multiple films off the ground, but one of them’s really expensive, and we need to cool it and write something less expensive.
WT: If you know anybody who has millions of dollars and wants to invest, we got a couple locked and loaded, ready to go.
The Civil Dead (2022)
JT: AND YOU’RE COMMITTED TO FILM RATHER THAN MOVING TO TV?
CT: To a fault, yes.
WT: There’s something way more satisfying about making a movie. With television and streaming nowadays, you sell a script to a network and then three months later none of the people who bought the script even work there anymore. Or a show becomes really popular while you’re writing a script and then they say, ‘Oh, actually we want this show to be more like that show.’ It’s not a satisfying way to work.
CT: Making films is not lucrative at all like TV is, but creatively, there’s nothing that beats it. It would be great to have a TV show, but you have so many people you rely on to say yes. With film, it’s just one and done. Also, I like movies more than TV. I like sitting down and seeing the beginning, middle and end of something in one sitting.
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